Episode 227 – Is the Sales Funnel Dead?

Ken

Hey, everybody, this is Ken Tucker with Changescape Web, and today we're going to be talking about Is the sales funnel dead? In this week's episode of the Marketing Guides for Small Businesses podcast. This week, as usual, I am joined by Jeff Steck of Tylerica Marketing, Ian Cantle from Outsourced Marketing, and Paul Barthel from Changescape. Welcome, guys.

Ian

Good afternoon.

Ken

So, you know, I, I was watching something a little while ago, and they were talking about Google's messy middle, and I, I thought that, you know, that's, that that's an interesting concept and it really, you know, kind of really at the heart of it asks, is the traditional sales funnel dead? And how is, what is the most effective way to generate leads and buyers these days? You know, with the plethora of automation and AI, you know, a lot is changing in marketing very quickly. So I thought this would be a great topic to get started. So, Jeff, I'm going to start with you. What is the traditional sales funnel and why is it considered to be outdated?

Jeff

Okay, yeah, that's a good starting point for sure. So, you know, when you think of a funnel, it's got a really wide top and it narrows down to a very, you know, fine point, right? And as a metaphor for what happens in marketing, you collect a whole lot of leads, however you get them, you know, what you would call the awareness level. And then you work them, you work them, you work them, you square squeeze them down, some fallout along the way, you wind up with some people you're actively engaged, talking to in the middle, and then a few sales pop out of the bottom of the funnel. That's why the funnel is the metaphor for that. And actually we could extend that. And I think we may talk about it later, but John Janss in Duct Tape Marketing talks about the hourglass model, where it opens up again. I know, we'll talk about that later, but the traditional funnel is that awareness at the top interest. You know, there's a lot of different. The Aida model, the know like and trust model. It's basically saying we're going to do something to get very broad exposure, very broad appeal to a lot of people who may or may not be interested in this yet. And then work them, work them, work them. Give them actions to take as we engage with them to, to move them along that funnel and in the hopes of making a sale. And the problem with that metaphor is that that was easy when there was a small number of things you could do to get people's attention or there was a small number of actions people would take when they're, you know, trying to figure out do they want to do business with you, do they, do they like what they see? Do they trust that you can deliver? But nowadays, people are getting bombarded with information from so many different directions. They're stopping in the middle of their, their buyer's journey. Because that's what the funnel really does. Right. It's meant to, to mimic or even enforce or create a buyer's journey. The buyer's journey isn't that nice funnel shape anymore. It's very messy. It's. People are hopping up and down from level to level. They think they made a decision, and then their friend says, oh, you should check on that. And then they're back up at, you know, discovery and awareness. So the funnel is a metaphor for, for gathering a very broad set of leads and then using a process to work them down through. I think still holds. How we do it is different. And recognizing that it isn't a strictly linear journey from top of funnel to bottom funnel anymore is what's changed. So as a, as a model, it's very simplistic. As a way to start thinking about things, it's a good start. But then you've got to start layering in all the other nuances and all the other channels and avenues that people get information and really map it back to and pay attention to their journey. You're not trying to force them into your journey. You're trying to have a business process for your business that, you know, molds to how they want to take the journey and maybe acts as the guide along the way.

Ken

Yeah. So great starting point. You know, about the traditional funnel. Now, Ian, let's talk about Google's messy middle. What is it and how does it challenge the, the, the traditional model that Jeff just kind of talked about?

Ian

For sure. Yeah. So the, the traditional model for sales has always been linear. Right. Like, even when I was in the corporate world, that's how we would talk about sales. The sales processes, they, they, they go really nicely from this step to this step, to this step, to this step. And when you get them at this step, bam, you, you know, you gotta close, man. You gotta close. But really, I think, I think it's actually kind of humorous because those of us who have been in strategic market for a long time have known this has been absolutely true. Like we were Talking about it 10 plus years ago in just what Jeff mentioned. Right. We are all researchers, as consumers, as Internet search engines, as our capabilities to quickly find answers has grown as Reviews have grown and a whole bunch of other things. We as consumers have all become researchers at heart and we do that in a whole bunch of different ways. And so Google's finally caught up a little bit because it's actually hitting their metrics. And so we've always known that people choose their own adventure. And what they're referring to specifically is Google's talking about how people get stuck in the decision making process in what they call the missy messy, messy middle, not the missy metal. And, and it's where they can't make a decision. It's almost like analysis paralysis. They've, they've become stuck. And what's really interesting about this, Jeff alluded to the, the duct tape marketing hourglass. And what we were trained in 10 years ago was that. And, and this is still absolutely true. And the funnel, the, the marketing hourglass, some of the other frameworks that we're going to talk about today are all relevant. They haven't changed in their relevance. The funnel is still important, especially when you're on the marketing side of things, to understand like you really got to fill the top of the funnel with a whole bunch of leads in order for them to trickle out in, into becoming customers. If you're not filling up the top of the funnel, which is wider, you're going to, the trickle is going to slow down. Right. And if you have a leaky bucket in there, you're going to lose people. And so the, the concept is that, you know, and again the, the marketing hourglass is one framework but a lot of people uses use this B and I uses it that people go through a natural process of determining who to buy from and what to buy. And it's no like trust. Try buy. Right. So you, you essentially can't buy something unless you know it exists and know a company provides it. You're not going to buy from someone. You don' to research it. You're going to ask your friends, you're going to look at reviews, you're going to look at their website, you're going to do a whole bunch of things to determine if you like and trust them. And then there's this try process and sometimes that's trying things through other people's experiences, looking at reviews. Sometimes, you know, if it's a bigger decision, the bigger decision, the longer this process inherently takes. Right. So I think it's important to understand that. But as marketers and as businesses, we have to understand who our ideal customers are and help them through that process. Essentially equip them to make A decision. And so it's interesting to me that Google's. Because it's hitting them. Has finally started to characterize this as the messy middle. So it's, that's really what it is. It's about this analysis paralysis. It's about, you know, if you imagine a funnel, you can still use the funnel thought, but imagine them spinning around inside the middle of the funnel. They're not moving through the process in order to get them to make a decision. And in my view, and I think you guys share this view, if not yell at me. But it's, it's actually up to you as the business owner or you as the marketing team or you as the sales team. It's up to you as the business itself to first of all understand your ideal customers, what they need in order to move through their buyer's journey. It's up to you to clearly determine what your core difference is so that you stand out from the competition. Because I would, I would suggest that the reason people get stuck in that messy middle is because you haven't clearly differentiated your product or your service, your business versus your competition. Because if, if you leave that up to the customer, if you don't clearly define that, then they're stuck trying to determine, well, who's, who's better, right? Which roofer is better? Why should I choose this roofer over this other roofer? But if you define a compelling difference between you and your competition, you're going to actually reduce barriers. You're going to move people quicker through that process and then offering, make sure they understand the true value of your service. And that's the responsibility of you, the business, not the consumer, not the buyer. You need to shape the conversation and provide clarity and be the leader in that discussion, so to speak.

Ken

So I think that's all really interesting because, you know, I remember back in 2008, 9, when I first started getting deep into inbound marketing. Yeah, we, we've lost control as, as a company, as marketing entities, control of the, of the customer journey. The customer has complete control of that now because of all the access and resources they have. So what I think you're really saying is you can't force it, but you can guide it. You can, you can create signposts where people naturally kind of flow. You can make sure that we talk about omnichannel marketing all the time. You create content in places where people are going to bounce to, from one place to the next, all designed, you know, with, with the stages that you've described. It's not perfect. It never will be perfect. It never was perfect. But when we did TV or radio advertising or yellow pages advertising, it was pretty, pretty linear. You saw an ad, you picked up the phone and you called, you scheduled an appointment, or you bought the product or service, or you went into the store and that was pretty much it. Now we've got a gazillion different messages, channels, you know, competitors all rattling the cage, you know, making noise. And so it's, you know, so I think that's, you know, that's also part of what you're talk about, Right?

Ian

Yeah. And I, I would suggest, at least in my lifetime, I don't think the, I don't think the seller has ever been in control of the, the process. Like, I think, I think the, the, the things you could do as a seller of a product or service were, were so much easier to define that it was easier for you as a seller to determine which thing you did that moved them through their journey. But I would suggest it's always been in the buyer's hands. Very rarely there are situations where the, the seller is in more control, you know, monopolies, that kind of stuff. But I would say, like, for the vast majority of anything that's purchased, whether it's B2B, B2C, the, the buyer probably has always been in control. Go back to ancient times. Right? Yeah. You know, you, unless you only had one person to buy from, the buyer's always in control. You've always had choices. It's just, it's gotten more complex, especially from the business side, to determine what's happening because there are so many touch points now. Yeah.

Jeff

Ian, when you talked about, you know, the things you can do to influence the buyer's journey and through the funnel, one, One thing that came to my mind is, is I think in exactly what you're just talking about, I think you can mitigate it somewhat or reduce the likelihood that people are going to be in that messy middle and churning around for time by having clearer differentiation. I think if you can put yourself in a class of one, ideally, there is no other solution, then you can take more control. You can influence that, that progression through the customer's journey to be a lot less looking around. If I've already decided that there's only one person who can solve my problem the way I want to solve, why would I go out and look for more? Right. So I think there are influential points, but you're right, ultimately the, the buyers are the ones who are going to say yes or no, and they're going to vote with their wallets. Right. The other thing when you first started out talking, that thought that came to mind is I think CRMs and I don't want to go off on a real, real deep rabbit hole, but CRMs tend to reinforce the linear progression. If you think of the pipelines and CRMs, they are very much, you move from stage one to stage two to stage three to stage four, whatever they call them now, I think a sophisticated marketer will say if somebody is in stage three and we're trying to get them to stage four and they haven't moved or we haven' qualified them out for a certain amount of time, maybe there's additional things we should do or we should take and the marketing automation come into play. But I think almost in a sense, don't let the CRM dictate to you what the buyer's journey is going to look like. Let you know, figure out how to use the tools that are available with their warts and limitations to really implement what you need to do to get your buyers to come sign with you.

Ken

Yeah, Paul, I love this question for you because I know you, you love social media so much and, and, and especially when we go come to dark social, you know, how do you see the rise of dark social complicate traditional marketing attribution? So we start out by just talking about what is, you know, dark social so that people understand that and then how does that really throw monkey wrench into the left handed monkey wrench, even into the attribution process.

Paul

Yeah, interesting. Dark social. So let's start with dark means not visible, not in like, you know, evil or something like that.

Ken

So.

Paul

Well it could be. But what, so what it really means is it's like if you share content via email and this goes back to analytics and attribution and really the source attribution. So if you share something through email or certain messaging apps like Slack, for instance, if you consider that a messaging app, I guess it is. Or like these closed communities, let's say you, you buy a course and that course comes with communities so the different members can communicate and share ideas and you share content within there or you share content via Slack analytics, probably Google, but whatever analytics platform you're using has no way to know that that has been done. So let's say you get 15 leads from this content that you shared in these closed communities or these, this dark social. When you look at your analytics, you won't see any attribution. If you get leads from that, you, you won't see any attribution for those leads. You probably won't even see those leads in your, in your analytics because it doesn't know it exists. So it's kind of an interesting concept because it, if it's within a private community, then the whole purpose of it being private is that it's private. So what I, I guess my answer to that would be if you share content within these closed communities or this dark social, also put that content where, it's, where it's shareable. Whether like, if it's a white paper, put it on your website. If you send, if you send people content via email, make sure that content, if it's appropriate, at least make sure it's on your website or on your social channel, your Facebook, Instagram, whatever, so that the source can be attributed. So that's kind of what I had on that.

Jeff

I, I would suggest that if you're going to put content on places specifically, you know, communities or private groups or anything like that, if you're sharing it within a company, you know, if it's a bigger company, you're doing account based marketing, have some, some unique identifying aspect to that content. In other words, if there's a call to action in it, have it go to unique URL or have a call tracking phone number or some, something that you get at least a little bit of help that if you know it came in via that channel, you might have some notion of tracking it.

Ian

Can I, can I just say I, when I was reading through the questions I was like, this is stupid. Like who even made up this term? Because this has always been an attribution problem, right? When like first of all, you know, with any kind of direct mail, with any kind of billboard advertising, with any kind of print advertising, it's always been a challenge, right? Word of mouth advertising, word of mouth marketing always been a challenge to, to do this. So when I saw this and I read it over, I'm like, it feels like we, we as a marketing community who came up with this term dark social, I'm like, yeah, we can call it a name but this, this isn't new. It's, it's not anything new. Like people have always been talking to their friends and buddies at baseball games. They've, they've been talking within their businesses, they, they've had channels outside of what we can attribute and it's a pain in the butt for us as marketers to try to close the gaps of attribution. But it just struck me as kind of a funny nuance of like well, we can create a new term, but it doesn't, it hasn't changed anything. It hasn't changed how we, you know, try to fill that gap of attribution. It just struck me as kind of a funny thing. I don't know if any of you guys felt that or if I'm just being overly sensitive to it, but I.

Jeff

Think it's that the attribution got better as things shifted more digital and we got spoiled by that. Didn't get perfect by any means, but it got better and we got spoiled by that. And now it's getting harder again. So I don't know.

Ian

I've always struggled with this because a lot of my clients have done offline marketing as well. Like, we, we're not just a digital agency. We've. We've always continued to do offline things. So it's always something we've worked on. And so I guess that's why it strikes me as a funny like, okay, we can call it whatever we want.

Paul

But, you know, I think part of it goes back to what Jeff was saying about, you know, you could, if you're taking them, if it's a white paper, it's a little different. But if, if you're sharing content and you're taking and you have a link in that content because you want them to go someplace, then yes, then you can track that URL. There's UTM parameters, things like that. And like what you said about direct mail, at least now, now, 20 years ago, I don't think this was the case, but now we can use call tracking numbers and that, that can help. And Y QR codes, a lot of people are using QR codes with, to take some to you. And there's software platforms out there that will track that. If someone scans it now, it won't tell you who scanned it because there's no way to know, but you can know that someone scanned it and someone went to that URL. And if you have UTM parameters on that URL, that, that will help you track it. So, yeah, I think it's gotten better, but there's still certain instances where, yeah, it's, it's going to be a problem.

Ian

I would suggest that that messy middle is entirely true in what we're talking about, about offline marketing. Like, it's always been messy. It's. We've added more trackable things into the mix. But people that get a postcard from a client at a trade show and it's got a QR code, they might do that. They Might just Google you. Right. So I think, I think attribution is always a challenge anytime you do anything where you don't control the whole ecosystem. But yeah, I think they, I think I'm probably just being sensitive about the term.

Ken

You are.

Ian

I don't like making up terms that are stupid.

Jeff

I think the key point with dark social is that there are just a lot more opportunities for people to share and talk about you that you don't know about or won't have visibility. You need to be cognizant of that and figure out ways to mitigate it or go back to the old, you know, ask the question, how did you hear about us? Right.

Ken

Yeah, yeah. To me it comes down to the complication. Right. Not, not necessarily the term, but the volume and the number of channels that now is available. That's the complicating factor of what makes attribution potentially harder than ever. Because there are, there are more channels that are dark, that aren't traceable. And the scale, because of the sharing technologies we have makes that a bigger problem than it used to be. What you've talked about, Ian, is always the case. That's right. But now it could be 10, 20, 50, 100,000 fold, you know, depending on what's going on.

Ian

Yeah. And I don't, I quite frankly don't know if the problem's actually grown. It's just people are just communicating in different channels. Right. Like, I think that's why I find it funny because I don't think it's actually a bigger problem. I think it's the exact same problem, just in different ways.

Paul

And you also have people using things like DuckDuckGo, which makes it very difficult for Google to track that. And I think usually what Google winds up doing, because DuckDuckGo anonymizes your data and your click trail, if you will. It just, it will just dump it into direct traffic, which just means Google doesn't know where it came from.

Ian

Yeah.

Ken

Jeff, let's talk about some of the psychological triggers in play with this messy middle.

Jeff

Yeah. So it's kind of a double edged question. There's the question of why do people get stuck in the messy middle? Because that's ultimately the problem that as marketers we need to figure out how to solve as businesses and our clients. They don't want people stuck in the messy middle. They want them either qualifying out so they know they don't have to spend any more time or resources on them or they want them coming through as customers. It's that sticking in that messy middle and churning and churning and oh, well, let me get more information. Let me go talk to this. You know, all that, that back and forth. You know, there's a lot of psychology, a lot of behavioral science that comes into play in that. So I think we can talk about some of it. Is why do people get stuck in there, that decision paralysis, as Ian mentioned it, and that's, you know, fear of making the wrong decision. So anything you can do to reinforce the right decision, to reinforce other people have made this decision and look how it's benefited them. The social proof comes in. If you're looking for a good reference, any of our viewers looking for a good reference on this. Robert Cialdini is a behavioral psychologist and he wrote a book, probably multiple books, but he talks a lot about how to ethically influence people to moving in a direction or taking an action or doing what you want them to do. So that's really. As marketers, what we want to do is influence people to move forward in their customer journey. I'm not even going to say down the funnel, but just forward in their customer journey towards making a decision. No is a decision that we don't like to hear, but at least then we don't spend any more resources on it. Yes is the one we go for. So how do you do that? Right. Behaviorally you can do things, like I said, offer social proof, other people have made the decision, look how it's benefited them. You can also play a little games as, as marketers, I'm kind of building up an immunity. I look at things now and I go, yeah, it's a marketing tactic. I don't like it. But the fact is it works from a psychology and behavioral science point of view. If you do things like scarcity, right, Limited time off or you know, call before midnight tonight. This has been going on a lot longer than, you know, as Ian said, a lot longer than we've been in the digital world. I remember the late night TV when the TV stations went off the air at midnight and you know, the last thing that was on there was the infomercial and it was call before midnight. So that that call to action, the time limiting the scarcity. You can only get this if you act now. You know, a lot of webinars and things that I see, it's like we want to reward action takers. That's the language they'll use. You'll get an extra bonus if you act quickly. So you're kind of sweetening the pot, so to speak. But then other Things you can do to break people out of that churn of being stuck in the messy middle is, you know, bonuses are good. Offer something for free, get them at least to take some kind of action. They may still be in the middle, but they may be a little closer to popping out of the middle. You'll see some e commerce websites where there's only 5 in stock. Right. I was on one today. I need a new keyboard. My keys are sticking. I was on Logitech's website and they have only, you know, limited quantities. And do they really have limited quantities? I don't know. But it made me think, gee, if I want that keyboard, I better decide right now and not, not go back and think about it, look at reviews and, you know, spend more time in the messy middle. So I think there's ways to ethically move people and influence some long playing to their fear of missing out, playing to their, you know, the gains will get if they take action now. And, and the sweetening the pot tactics that I talk about in the social proof, make sure that, you know, you're showing what other people are saying, how other people are benefit even more important. And then be a little careful with the, the scare tactics. They are more powerful, but if you overdo it, it can come off as a negative. And just really think about how to get people moving, how not just perpetuate that. Stuck in the messy middle.

Ian

Oh, you're muted, Ken.

Ken

One of the things that's, that's interesting is even if you don't give something away for free, having the. In terms of, you know, where people make a purchase, using the word free still is a huge trigger to get people to click an ad. So it could be a free estimate. You may always do estimates for free at no cost to, you know, to a customer. But when you run an ad, it just says call for an estimate. You're going to lose performance in your ad, most likely. If your competitors are saying call for a free estimate. Just that word free is that trigger. I mean, it's so important. So you do have to really look at the, you know, the whole entire value proposition. Is it better to add value? But, but don't forget the word free. Obviously you have to be careful using the word free in like emails, you know, when you're doing email marketing and things like that, because it's a, it's a spam trigger word.

Ian

And ads as well.

Ken

Yeah, so, but the, but the reality is, Ian, the statistics show overwhelmingly that ads that say the word free in them get clicked a Hell of a lot more.

Ian

Yeah, you just have to watch it because some of the platforms actually reduce visibility if you include some what they would classify as spammy words.

Ken

Right, right, right.

Ian

Even using an exclamation mark can get your ads not shown as much on Google and some of the other platforms.

Jeff

So that illustrates the importance of a B testing. Right. Run two versions, almost identical, but. And then see. See what the platforms do. Yeah, that's right.

Ken

So, Ian, there's also this concept of the 95.5percent rule. What is it? And how should businesses adapt to it? Or do you think that's even a valid, appropriate rule?

Ian

Yeah, so it, it actually dates back to like the early 2000. It's been something that businesses and marketers specifically have been observing in customer behavior, prospect behavior, whereby at any one time you. You only have 5% of leads ready to buy, and that leaves 95% of all the other prospects. Right. Your prospect universe, so to speak, are either researching or they're not in the market yet. But at one point, that assumes that at one point they will be. Right. So that's in essence what the 95.5rule is. Now, of course, those ratios are radically different depending on the type of business you're in and what it means to your business. So, for example, if you're a burger restaurant, the 95.5rule doesn't even matter, essentially. Right. Like, because people who are going to buy from you are going to have the desire to buy from you and it's going to be an immediate need. And where the 95. 5 rule can become very, excuse me, helpful from a business standpoint is that you should be doing something with the 95% of people who aren't ready to buy right now. And that's essentially what that rule is there to guide you in, is to remember that in your universe of prospective customers, you should be doing activities that will help attract and nurture those people and ready them to buy from you specifically. And so there's a bunch of things that you can do. Email nurturing, text nurturing, targeted retargeting. And, and what you can do in those types of retargeting campaigns. You can essentially, John Loomer has a great program where it's all about. And just Google him if you want to learn more. But it's all about, you know, you can actually build out nurturing sequences through things like Facebook ad campaigns where people move through the nurturing process. So even if you don't have an email address, you can do some nurturing. But it's all about. Excuse me, first of all, understanding your target audience, understanding their buyer's journey, which we've talked about already, understanding what they need, like what do they need in each phase of that buyer's journey of know, like trust, try buy. Right. What do they need in order to help them through that, through that process and what can you do to grease the wheels of their decision making process? So what questions are they asking? What assurances do they need? What myths do they do you need to bust what pre education needs to happen? And once you can do that kind of stuff and you can send the right message at the right time. And Jeff talked about CRMs. Using a CRM system is the only way to do a lot of the nurturing because it's the only way you can do a cohesive viewpoint of who this person is. You can even include things like, you know, did they open the last three emails? Did they respond? You know, did they do the quiz we posted? Have they looked at our white paper? What, whatever it is, it essentially at its very base it's about nurturing a person in a relationship and how you can predispose them to your strengths and your competitors weaknesses. Right. To position yourself as the ideal solution to their problem and aiding them to help make a great decision.

Ken

Yeah. So also go back and check out the John Loomer episode that we had probably about a year ago, maybe a little bit longer. So great information. Also Ali Bloyd, you know, talked about the importance of remarketing and moving that 5%. You know, with your advertising budget, if you're not doing remarketing, you're missing about another 10% of people who are not ready to buy. But they're pretty close and they're influenceable and they're nurturable to where they're going to take that faster action. And so if you're spending in remarketing, campaigns are typically pennies on the dollar. So and the mistake a lot of people make is they do that, they spend all of their money to just get that 5% and they leave a lot of, a lot on the table with another potential 10% just by adding, you know, some effective nurture strategies including remarketing campaigns.

Ian

Have, have you guys ever experienced this? I think this is such a good example of this. And it's, it's not really indicative of the 95. It's probably like a smaller percentage but over the years, like I've been in business for 10 years, you guys, some of you guys have been in business longer, but it's it's over that time. There's some people I've had conversations with where they expressed a need for the service. I have and there's a small percentage of them who did not make a decision. Their decision was to stay with the people they were currently with even though it was a fear based decision because they were more scared of making a change from, from somebody that was underserving them to a better solution. And I have to think every industry is ripe with these kind of opportunities but the only way to garner those people is and to get them to actually make a decision is to help them over time understand there is a better solution and just keep reinforcing that and what that better solution is and also reminding them that fear isn't a good solution. Like sticking with a bad situation is probably the worst thing you can do because you're spending money, you're losing opportunities. That kind of, you know, just that anecdote just popped in my mind because that's, I've seen that over and over and that's a really good example of how, how in every industry there's opportunity to nurture people and help them along in their process to ultimately help them.

Ken

Yeah, I think that's a great segue to the question I had for Paul which is how can technology enable marketers to adapt to this evolving customer journey? I mean Ian kind of hinted about some of the things that, that CRMs can do but Paul, can you elaborate on that?

Paul

Yeah. And we've kind of talked about all of these a little bit like analytics platforms. Of course GA4 is kind of a joke that's still not ready for prime time but don't have much of a choice. It's. They made stuff difficult to find. But you do need the analytics if you want to know what's going on with certain things. Automation tools. And this goes back, this is generally part of the CRM. If you're using a good CRM and want to touch on something Ian said there's nuances in these different things. We talk about retargeting ads but on Google you cannot run retargeting campaigns. If you're an attorney, I don't know why, but Google won't let you. So getting back to the CRM systems, if you're using a good CRM there's always nuances. Jeff was talking about it, it's, it makes you think it's linear. But if you build out your automations right and your, in your pipelines right. There's things called like if and branches where you can, if they do this, do this. If they do this, go down this branch and you can move people back and forth between different pipeline stages. So I think every business needs a CRM, but more important than that, you really need to know how to use it. And you probably don't have the time or the, or the personnel that has the time or expertise to really learn these nuances of a CRM, because. And if you don't learn those, you can probably wind up getting bad data and making bad decisions.

Ken

So, Jeff, there's another idea out there floating around called the flywheel model to address the shortcomings of the sales funnel. Talk a little bit about what that is and, and how it might be beneficial or not.

Jeff

Yeah. So again, the funnel model is relatively linear. It's about getting a whole bunch of people and moving them down from stage to stage. In some cases, those stages may be thrown over the wall to another part of your business. Right. It could be the marketing throws it over to sales and then it's a clean handoff. It could be the. Well, I'm looking at my screen, I'm getting a lot of lag here. I'm going to hide myself. Sorry. It could be that, you know, the sales guys make the sales. The sales team. I say guys in a generic sense. I grew up in New England. The sales team makes the sale and they throw it over to, you know, delivery and customer support. And in that linear progression of stage to stage, and then it ends when you have a customer and then nobody knows what to do with them next other than hope they buy again, the flywheel model changes that. It wraps that funnel back on itself in the sense that once you have a customer, you're still looking for what's next. What can you sell them to upsell, to retain them, to keep them buying. If it's a long term subscription model and you want to put energy into it in the sense that you nurture these customers, these clients, and then you get them helping to bring in more, helping to create the awareness, helping to create the social proof. You know, I'm an engineer by deep background, so I love to geek out. And the flywheel is a great, you know, model from an engineering point of view too. What is a flywheel? It is a spinning disc and you keep spinning that disc a little harder, a little harder, a little harder. And it goes faster and faster and faster and it stores energy. It will keep people in the system. It will keep things going in the system. And the other thing about it is if you Think of a bicycle wheel. Once it's spinning and rolling, it's hard to turn, so it's got a little momentum. So if it can break through that churn, that tendency for people to leave, to go somewhere else, it can create some of the stickiness for people to want to hang around. So it's about continuous engagement. It's about using your existing clients, making them feel love, keeping them around to buy more, using them as your advocates to help bring in more. And that builds up the momentum, builds things up in it. And a good example of a flywheel effect is Spotify music streaming service. And they have these things called Spotify Wrapped. And they were campaigns that would encourage users to share their listening data and their playlists. And then other people would see that and go, oh, that's kind of cool, and they jump on. They'd start following it, start listening and spending more and more time in the platform, listening to music and maybe broadening their horizons. So essentially, they're getting organic referrals and fueling their growth out of just a feature they put into their system. But that's what it really is. It's about the ecosystems that you're operating in, keeping your customers engaged, involved, and helping you grow your business.

Ken

Hey, so, Paul, are there risks if you just decide to abandon a funnel strategy altogether?

Paul

Yeah, I think there are. Because the funnel, yes, it's linear, but it gives you a way to kind of visualize this abstract, convoluted customer journey. That is what it is. Because ultimately they may bounce around, go back and forth. They may, you know, go to your website and then this comes back to analytics and tracking. Go to your Facebook page and go to your Instagram and then come back to your website and then go click on an ad. But ultimately, they're still in these different stages of the funnel. They're, they're, if they don't know your business, they're researching you, learning you, learning about you, deciding whether or not you're on the short list, if they're, if they're close to buying and deciding if they're, if they're going to buy from you. So, yeah, the customer journey isn't linear, but it's, I think it's still a good idea to help people and help businesses visualize this customer journey.

Jeff

So it's not, it's not linear, but there is a customer journey. Right? You need to be cognizant and tap into it.

Paul

So, yeah, and it, it kind of gives you a way to, to help guide people through the, the whole Buyer's journey, as convoluted as it is. And going back to when Jeff was talking about the, the flywheel model, I've noticed this because I've been unsubscribing from things, is make sure that continuous engagement doesn't turn into continuously annoying. Because that's, that's a risk that you, that you take. Because I'm not going to mention any names, but we use a web hosting platform and they were doing a couple of webinars and I'm telling you, leading up to that webinar, I think I got the same email seven times a day every other day.

Ian

Thanks. Yeah, and just, just to reinforce too, like, just so our, our listeners and viewers understand, like, these models, they all have relevance. Like, none of them are outdated, none of them are trash. They're, they're marketing models that help you as a business understand how to do it better. And each of them has inherent strengths and weaknesses in particular areas. And so between the flywheel, the funnel, the marketing hourglass, these are all tools that we as marketers use all the time to help us do our job better and help our clients better market themselves. So I think that's how a business should look at these, is if you don't have a model to what Paul was saying, like visualize the buyer's journey, then use one. You'll learn from it and you might dislike it. So you can switch eventually, but they all have their place and you can leverage them, you just have to use them. Right. And I think a lot of businesses don't do this process because it's more of a strategic process. And a lot of businesses jump into tactics right away. They want to do stuff.

Ken

So, Ian, I'm going to have you keep going because you started down this path. But what other practical steps can, can small businesses take to thrive in this messy middle?

Ian

Yeah, I, I think the key is, you know, understanding that we live in a mult, an omnichannel world, a multi channel world that you as the business need to be there at the touch points, like have touch points with your prospect, your customers in order to help them move through that process. And so, you know, optimize for SEO, run Google Ads, be active in social media. They all have their place. They're all important. Especially if you want to show up in an omnichannel world. Leverage email marketing, leverage text marketing. Like you, you can do this stuff, especially if you have the help of a, a marketing agency that's, you know, understands the omnichannel channel world and Helps you. The one thing I would reinforce too is, and this is kind of how I started this conversation when you asked me my first question, but understand your core difference and be able to communicate that. Well, there's lots of names for core difference, your unique selling proposition. Right. There's all these terms that people have coined. But understand what your core difference is. Communicate it very clearly and make sure it's different than your competition. If you do that part and then you communicate that through every single touch point you have with someone, that one thing will help immensely. But then some other things you can do. Showcase testimonials, get reviews from customers, existing customers, do case studies, create shareable content. This is true with any business from restaurants to, you know, it. Businesses that are selling intangible products sometimes, or services. You can, you can do case studies, you can create shareable content, you can do videos, you can do how to guides and optimize your engagement metrics. So you should be tracking everything you possibly can. We talked about how you can't track everything, but try to track everything you possibly can. And, and then figure out, you know, one of the. I was blown away one time because I was working with a client and we were talking about their sales process and not every marketing agency or company coach consultant will talk about sales processes. And we were talking about this one time and I was talking about how, excuse me, email nurturing could help them in their sales process. And what I was so impressed with was that they actually knew their conversion rates between every single step of the sales process. Essentially the marketing hourglass in their own terms. Right? And when you track that kind of information as a business, you're able to pinpoint where gaps are and where you're, you're, you've got a leaky bucket, right? You, you're maybe you're attracting a whole bunch of people in the no phase, but then the like phase, you're losing people, or the try phase, or between the try and the buy phase. Right? You, if you can get down to the point of using metrics and analytics to determine that and then track it over time and improve processes, improve emails, improve retargeting, you're going to come out ahead of your competition big time because not a lot of people are doing that kind of stuff.

Ken

So why do you do this, Ian? What, what, what is the cumulative effect of.

Ian

Yeah, yeah. Ultimately, it's the whole purpose and why we do what we do for our clients.

Ken

Well, come on, you know the word I want you to hear.

Ian

Say it. Hold on. What's what's the term that Ken wants? Like I was thinking like increase multiplier in it becomes a force multiplier in attracting new customers, growing revenue and profit. Right.

Ken

Amplification is the. I would have accepted either one of those two.

Ian

Ah, man. Have to go back to class.

Ken

All right, Jeff or Paul, do you guys have anything you want to add to what Ian said?

Paul

The only thing I'd really add is that we talk about tracking all these things and it's a good idea and you should. But sometimes for a small business, you know, this analyzing and tracking every single thing, every touch point, if you will, takes time and resources and money. And sometimes small businesses may have to decide what's the most important for them.

Ken

Yep.

Jeff

The only thing I'd add is if you're working on building these systems or optimizing an existing system, work from the bottom up. Right. You can influence your bottom line of your business more. Take an example. If you take a thousand leads at the top of the funnel, top of the hourglass, entry of the flywheel, whatever model you're using to get 10 sales, if you make a 10% improvement at the top, you know you won't get another sale out of it. If you make a 10% improvement at the bottom, you'll get another sale out of it. So work from the bottom up when you're building and especially optimizing these systems.

Ken

Okay, well, thanks so much. Guides. I think this was a good discussion. Hopefully, you know our viewers and listeners are going to have a lot of good takeaways from this. Ian, I will. As traditional, I'll let you take us out.

Ian

Yes. Smash the like button. Smash it like us. Spread the word. Tell people about this podcast. That's how you know we want to share as much as we possibly can with as many people as possible. Marketing truths, Right? That's why we do this. We love sharing insights into how you can market your business better. And until next week, folks, keep calm and Margaret on.

Ken

And don't be afraid of that dark social.

Ian

That's right. Whatever it is.